Talk:Dungeon tile


 * 1) The starting number of tiles appears to be different in my two dungeons. Perhaps it's related to the number of entrances.
 * 2) I can't be sure until someone actually gets there, but it seems to me that the final Forgotten Lore technologies might be repeatable.
 * ~n47h4n


 * Very clever. It makes sense!

My 4-entrance expansion has 34 tiles worth of hallway, but one of them is a gold mine. I don't know if it's always on a hallway tile; if it is it should not be counted.

I didn't count the mine nodes or the vault in my tile counts. I also made sure to subtract the extra 25 from Lesser Stone Binding. ~n47h4n

But one of the mine nodes is ON a hallway tile. If it wasn't there, it would be a hallway. I'm wandering if the gold node is always in the same spot. If it is, I can subtract one from the tile count.

There was a gold mine on one of the paths to my vault in my expansion, too, when it was new (although, it only has 3 entrances). I don't think every dungeon would be like that, though. What you're saying is that, if the mine weren't there, there'd be one extra hallway tile? Perhaps I should add that one back in. It's possible that all the mine nodes count towards the total tiles, and dungeons with many nodes have less tiles to work with. It's hard to determine anything with so little data. ~n47h4n

I just realized that both of my dungeons have a gold mine in the exact same spot! Aligned with the center of the Vault, on the bottom-left side (with respect to the screen), with two spaces between them. This could be a coincidence. Not all dungeons even have gold mines. ~n47h4n

Ok. I checked my Trusted Friend's expansion dungeon, and he has two Gold mines, one of which is in that same position! Also, I looked at all the dungeons that I've surveyed so far, and I was wrong. All of them have at least one gold mine. It seems likely that that gold mine next to the Vault is a constant. Interesting. ~n47h4n

Then it's not a stretch to assume there is always a gold node in that place. However, removing that tile from the count complicates things for those dungeons that do not have a southwestern entrance. So let's just leave it in.

Ok, another interesting thing came up. Earlier you said that you had 34 tiles of hallway in your new dungeon, which I assume means you had 100 free tiles. Is this how it's always supposed to be? New dungeons have whatever hallway tiles are necessary to connect the vault to the entrances, plus 100 unused tiles? The reason I'm asking this is because I've counted the tiles in my expansion dungeon multiple times, and I'm sure I've gotten it right. I currently have 149 tiles down (not including the gold node; I'll have to change the table in a minute), with no unused tiles left over. Subtract the 25 from Lesser Stone Binding, and that's how I came up with the 124. However, when I counted the spaces from my Vault to the entrances, I discovered that, when the dungeon was new, it had 25 tiles of hallway (26 if you count the node), which would only leave 99 unused tiles. I honestly didn't even look at the number when I first got the dungeon. I wish I had. Also, are we assuming that all dungeons with the same number of entrances have the same layout? It seems likely, but to make sure, I checked my friend's dungeon again. My Vault has 10 spaces between it and the entrance to the top, 9 to the left, and 6 to the bottom (7 with the node). His dungeon matches all of those numbers, and also has 8 spaces to the right. That matches your 34, if you count the node, so it looks like the layouts are identical, too. ~n47h4n

Hypothesis: If my expansion had the entrance to the right, rather than the one to the left, one less tile would be needed for hallways, and there would be 100 unused tiles. Likewise, if the missing entrance was the one to the top, there would be 101 unused tiles. The total number of tiles for a dungeon with a given amount of entrances is set, regardless of which entrances they are, and the necessary number of hallway tiles are taken from that total. The number of unused tiles left over is always 100 in four-entrance dungeons, or in starter dungeons, because they're all the same, but this number varies for expansion dungeons with other numbers of entrances. If this proves true, then the gold node shouldn't be counted, but let's just leave it for now. I struck out that line, because it seems likely that the only possible layouts for 3-entrance dungeons are North-South-West, and North-South-East.

When assumptions are many, it's time to get empirical. If this works out we'll know everything there is to know about all dungeons everywhere.

Before we start filling in the list of additional squares per dungeon type, we need the know the different dungeon types. In order to catagorize them, we'll need the hallway numbers for all dungeon locations, of which there are 25. We'd have to do this for several different mountains. We can then test the following predictions:


 * Directions on the mountain map coincide with directions on the dungeon map. For instance, all starter dungeons have their entrance to the top right, which is north on the mountain map.
 * The two dungeons in the same location on the mountain map but in different mountains are identical.
 * All starter dungeons are identical.
 * All dungeons with the the same entrances on the mountain map are identical (namely: all 10 4-entrance squares, the 2 circles with the south and east entrances, the 2 circles with south and west entrances)
 * It is possible one side of the mountain is the other side mirrored. Then we would have many more different layouts, for instance different 4-entrance squares in the east, west and center.

That being said, I'm hopeful that the following different layouts exist: ~PeteD

I added my own information to your table. Also, the starter dungeon begins with an additional 2 hallway tiles connecting the vault to the gold node. I added those to the South column. My expansion (east 3-entrance) does match up the position of the entrances with the dungeon map, and so does my friend's 4-entrance. So far so good. As an additional note, my friend's dungeon is in the row just above the expansion, second from the right (dungeon location 17), which puts him on the east side. We'll have to see some west-side dungeons to test the mirror theory (although, even if it proves true, the total number of tiles wouldn't change). I'm curious about the southern circle dungeons, as they're the only locations that don't have a path to the south. n47h4n 23:15, January 23, 2011 (EST)

I saw a screenshot of a western 3-entrance dungeon today. I added the info. n47h4n 00:40, January 25, 2011 (EST)

I am so glad that this thread exists! n47h4n 02:32, January 25, 2011 (EST)

It turns out that the circle dungeons (or at least the one at position 4) have more than two entrances! I added the info, assuming that the two instances are the same. n47h4n 03:25, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * If you look at the dungeon map per mountain... you can actually count how many entrances each dungeon has by counting the number of paths that lead into it... no? KTCAOP 05:31, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * Circle dungeons have more than two entrances? Are you sure? How did you find this out? User:PeteD
 * I can confirm that the Circle Dungeons (that is, the perimeter dungeon) do indeed have an extra exit, presumably "to the outside world". Just checked into one of my friend's dungeons that was a circle one and he has the south, north, and east entrance. I bet he never even noticed that he had the extra blocks =P. KTCAOP 05:46, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * Do you happen to know what position that dungeon is in on the mountain map? n47h4n 06:07, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * P.S. PeteD, if you could please use the signature (that is, at the end of your post put four tildes ( ~ ) That would be absolutely fantastic ^.^ Thanks =) .KTCAOP 05:49, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * @PeteD: I got the info from the forum. Someone posted a screenshot of her layout, which had three entrances (all but the North). I noticed that none of the dungeons on the mountain map appeared to have those entrances, so I asked her, and she said her dungeon is in position 4, which is one of the Northwest Circle dungeons. n47h4n 06:07, January 25, 2011 (EST)

From what I've read on the forums there are only 3 and 4 portals dungeons and it depends on the square or circle shape on the map --Bibendus 05:44, January 25, 2011 (EST)
 * My expansion has 3-entrances and is a square. It actually appears to have 3 entrances on the map, though. It looks like the circles might mean that there are entrances that aren't shown on the map. I'm curious about the dungeon at the top, which I had assumed only had one entrance. Now it looks like expansion dungeons with 1 or 2 entrances might not exist. n47h4n 06:07, January 25, 2011 (EST)

This is pretty interesting. It's a screenshot from the top circle dungeon. Position 0. n47h4n 00:35, January 27, 2011 (EST)

Added the North Circle info to the table. It has two entrances, with the same layout as the rest. It's probably safe to assume that all the dungeons have the same spacing, except the Heart of the Mountain, of course. We can't make any assumptions about that. n47h4n 06:09, January 28, 2011 (EST)
 * I assume that it has 0 entrances, full hallway tiles and all of the resource nodes are represented and that once you gain it, you cause the entire game to crash with a banner announcing that you have won dungeon overlords. After this banner finishes, you are then forced to give up all of your dungeons to KTCAOP and start over in a new land. The end. KTCAOP 06:17, January 28, 2011 (EST)
 * That seems... unrealistic somehow :P PeteD 06:47, January 28, 2011 (EST)
 * What!? How dare you! How can you not see the truth that comes forth from my fingersss! D= KTCAOP 11:03, January 28, 2011 (EST)

brought over
''It turns out that the dungeon layouts aren't as simple as we thought. We're working on figuring everything out.''