Talk:Hate Generation

To Do
Gather more data!

What happens when there are multiple military structures nearby capable of receiving hate from the attack? It may simply be added to each structure, but that seems lazy. It seems more likely that it is divided equally among all nearby structures, or that the hate received by a military base depends on the relative distance of each structure involved.


 * It's been speculated that the structure where hate is generated is determined by the location of the attacking dungeon, rather than the location of the settlement. If true, it's possible that this is a bug.
 * My observations show otherwise. If this were the case any dungeon could only get hate from military buildings near them, and never with any other. But when I attack a target that is within range of different military bases, these other buildings generate hate. However I have yet to establish if buildings near the source DO NOT gain hate when the target is out of range.
 * Just confirmed. The structures near the source do not generate hate if they are not also in range of the destination.

What happens when multiple creatures attack? Do different creatures generate different amounts of hate? Is it irrelevant?


 * It appears to be irrelevant.

Conclusive measurements of hate loss when a military structure reciprocates must be made. Is it based on an exchange of resources as well? If and incoming army is massacred, they drop resources. Is there a relation between the resources that drop (or WOULD drop should the enemy soldiers be killed) and the hate reduction? Or is it simply a function of the number of creatures and their levels?

What happens when a raid fails and all attackers are killed? Is no hate generated?

Is there any conclusive data on when military structures launch an attack?


 * A developer has said on the forums that, when a structure decides to attack, it goes after the dungeon that has the most hate, though there is some randomness. However, exactly what determines when the structure attacks, and the strength of the attacking force has yet to be determined.
 * This is going to be difficult to verify. Even with the new information on the hate screen, it will take a large dataset to confirm this.

What does the new 'Reprisal Chance' in the Settlement Hate screen mean? Is it the chance that the structure will retaliate when an attack is made on a target near them, or is it the chance that it will retaliate against me, rather than someone else, when it decides to attack?


 * If the first option is true, reprisal chance is simply a function of the hate toward me and will always increase at the same speed. If the second option is true, attacking a target that gets raided by other players only rarely will cause this value to increase faster than when attacking a target that gets raided constantly by many players. Raiding a target that has never been raided before should net a 100% Reprisal Chance in one go.

Would like more examples of resource depletion. Series attacks. Evenly spaced attacks with variable breaks, to see what the recovery time is.

What are the ranges of the different military structures?


 * I added an image displaying the range of a normal level structure. I'll make images for the other levels after I can confirm the ranges. n47h4n 03:30, January 24, 2011 (EST)
 * Are you sure that is accurate? Perhaps it is skewed but I've gotten attacked from things definitely farther then that one I believe. KTCAOP 05:07, January 24, 2011 (EST)
 * It's correct according to what the game says when you look at the list of structures in range of a settlement, and it seems pretty accurate so far. Also, it's only for the normal level structures. If you get attacked by something farther away then that, it could be a high or super high level structure. I haven't tried to get the ranges of those yet; I'll probably do it tonight. n47h4n 20:05, January 24, 2011 (EST)
 * I want to add, that the army size is strongly bound by the age of your dungeon. I generated hate from the first day on with 12+ reprisals on me each day and this is very safe to say. Obviously it could be bound to technology, but in the end that means the same unless someone falls into madness and does not research anymore for whatever reason ;)
 * Although I have several attacks per day, my hate goes up little by little. The attacks can be small, but there is definitely a larger attack coming from the "sheriff" once in a while so e.g. I have in a day 2-3 small attacks with 4 or less enemies involved 7-9 what I would call "normal attacks", because they are simply what I am getting over and over and over again 10-13 mobs lvl 2-8 however the sherif does not seem to care he can send in the dungeon purger with 15 and more lvl 15 units. However this happens once a day maximum.

Why do they continually attack me a full week after my last attack?
I have 2 level 50 thiefs, they hit this level 2 city a bunch of times (sorry, i was not tracking how many, but a lot), each time stealing 2000 resources. I am now being raided from almost every military location on the map. I am at map location 4,19 and I am being raided by 10,10 and 3,29 which are two cities very far away from me and not listed on the hate list of the city I was raiding. The hate seems to have spread far beyond the scope of what is discussed here. All of my units that were below level 30 have been killed, and keep on respawning at level 1 each time they die. I have attempted to level them up several times, but I am being raided so often (every 2-3 hours), I can not regroup. Is there any way to get a truce with the surface to better prepare myself for their retaliation? Is it advisable to not raid the surface so often? I am getting tons of leather and gold from their attacks, but I can not send my thiefs out because they are now critical to the defense of my city. Just an FYI, most of the attacks they are sending have 17 units they are attacking with all between levels 5 and 12


 * If you're constantly getting wiped out, set your creatures not to defend and let your traps to the work if you have enough. If not, you'll lose resources, but your creatures won't die. You might also want to check how much hate you've generated with each military base and what your reprisal % is. Remember, hate remains with a military base until they use some of it with an attack. If you attacked something two months ago, but the protecting base never launched a reprisal, the hate you created back then will remain until it does attack. Pho Kadat 18:27, March 8, 2011 (EST)

XML and hate
I have some alternate theories. First, I don't think Chance has anything to do with attack percentages, otherwise the non-attacking settlements wouldn't even have a value. I believe Chance refers to the chance of such a settlement being placed during automated region creation. Thus, there are a lot more villages than cities. Related to that is the min/max of the fortresses and citadels, guaranteeing that there are at least 1 of each in a region, but no more than 2. My assumption on repopChance deals with settlement destruction and if multiple settlements are destroyed, the one with the greatest repopChance is rebuilt. Or something along those lines. I think groups min/max relate to how many attacks the base can send region-wide per attack interval. Attack_min/max_minutes might be how often the base can attack. --Pho Kadat 04:45, June 16, 2011 (EDT)

Wow, once again very awesome and observant. The spawn of the villages and cities does appear to be completely random on location. I'm able to fetch all of the zone data and then sum all the spawns and see if those percentages match or not for "chance". A bit annoying, but possible to do. I can adapt a work related script to fetch the data and store it in html files, but the JSON parser to read each zone would be new. My map has 1 Citadel and 2 fortress. I made another edit with your suggestions, and I think your interpretation of Chance is the correct one. --Rorschach

Range may play a factor
Range may play a factor in how often attacks occur and their size. Obviously a military structure that covers a larger range will have more players within that range, but I think there is something else going on besides the obvious.

I'm in an area that is almost completely inactive. I'm on the edge of the map, and I know of only 3 other players that are active in my area. There are 5 military structures near me, all in a small area, and one of my raiding dungeons is right in the middle of those structures, while my main dungeon is to the east of all of the structures by about 10-12 tiles. I have 6 thieves in each of the two dungeons and will occasionally launch all of them at T1 settlements on x3 raids. All the thieves are over level 6 so they always loot the maximum possible.

As soon as I do this the reprisals start, but my dungeon in the middle of the military structures (expansion) gets hammered with attacks from all 5, while my more distant one (main) gets far fewer attacks. My expansion over a day or two will get hit with 20, 30, or more attacks, while my main may get 5 or 10. I've sent out my thieves as I'm about to log for the night, and when I get home from work the next day my expansion probably has 30-40 treasure chests in it, while my main might have 10 on a good day. I've also had the same military structure launch multiple attacks at the same time against my expansion.

But my main seems to get stronger attacks though instead of more frequent smaller attacks. My friend that just started recently is in an area where he's surrounded by settlements but the nearest military structure is far away (probably 15 squares or more). He's only level 2 so he's not raiding heavy but he got hammered with a 40 attacker single attack recently, which is more than I've ever had and I've launched far more attacks. All of the attacks against him have been high attacker numbers.

He's in a newer region so most are going to be about his level, so theory that attacks are determined by amount of hate should mean that he shouldn't be getting attacked so infrequently with such powerful attacks. If it worked that way he would only be getting attacked like that if everyone else in the area was attacking more than he was, which I find hard to believe on a new region. If it's a pure hate chance only then he should be getting fairly frequent smaller attacks, not massive attacks. I can only think that range plays a role in who gets attacked, with closer players getting a higher chance of being attacked.

If I get time this weekend I'll send my thieves to all attack the same T1 settlement that is protected by fortresses out of my normal area. I'll have the T1 be at a location such that my expansion will be almost twice as far as my main, and I'll time the attacks so that they all land at the same time. Then I'll see what attacks I get back. I've attacked a settlement at the far corner of the map (to send my thieves out for hours on purpose) and I got attacked by the fortress near that settlement, so they do attack you back from that far (took like 8 hours though!).

Jaradis 09:55, June 16, 2011 (EDT)


 * Just guessing here, but a 40 man attack sounds like 3000 hate or more was burned off in that single attack. This is unusual considering it sounds like it came from a F3, which typically do not launch anything heavy. Although, the frequency of attacks seems to have a lot to do with reprisal percentage, rather than just the overall hate value. A high reprisal percentage mixed with relatively low hate means lots of low-level attacks. A low-reprisal percentage with a high hate level means one day: boom goes the dynamite. --Pho Kadat 16:45, June 16, 2011 (EDT)
 * Yes, it was a F3. He was freaking out when it launched. It ended up being all lower level and he beat them all with only losing a level 1 warlock or two. My main reason with the range maybe playing a factor was my own two dungeons as I am pretty sure there are few others attacking. I tend to get immediate reprisals as soon as my first attacks land. Jaradis 18:23, June 16, 2011 (EDT)
 * That might just be a coincidence. I've had that happen before, but it usually doesn't. Then again, we don't know when reprisals or the reprisal timers are triggered. I did find this bit of info from the NOG site interesting: "Reprisal is calculated based on recently generated Hate and the time elapsed since you last sustained an NPC Attack on your Dungeon." --Pho Kadat 18:49, June 16, 2011 (EDT)